Idle/Timing problem

[festivBS]

i have a b6t swapped into a 93 festiva and i am now trying to start it for the first time since the swap but the car will start and it will idle high and when i start adjusting the dizzy, the closer the mark on the crank pulley gets to where it needs to be the car bogs out and dies. There also is hesitation in the throttle. I've checked and made sure that my cam timing is perfect. Any ideas on what it is or how to fix it?

[brickdog2000]

Maybe air fuel ratio.

[brickdog2000]

Have you allowed it to warm up first? Are you able to adjust the idle?

[festivBS]

my downpipe isnt built yet so i dont have another o2 bung to put my wideband sensor in so im not sure on the air to fuel ratio, and yes we've allowed it to warm up but it idles high so we're trying to adjust the ignition timing. as soon as the idle drops to where it should be it cuts out and dies

[festivBS]

any other ideas?

[JohnGunn]

when i start adjusting the dizzy, the closer the mark on the crank pulley gets to where it needs to be the car bogs out and dies.

First, a couple of questions.

1. When you are moving the distributor toward the correct timing mark on the crankshaft pulley are you approaching from the retarded side or advanced side? In other words, is the mark on the pulley moving from left to right or right to left?

2. Are you grounding the STI to let the computer know that it should stop trying to control idle speed and timing advance?

3. Could you describe exactly what you mean when you say the car "bogs out"? I assume there is no load on the engine. It is missing. Starved for fuel? Help me out here.

4. Is there a distributor position that makes the running of the car seem normal? How much of an advance does that location show on the pulley?

Without more information, I can't think of anything that would make the engine run less well by being moved to the proper advance setting. That leads me to suspect that what appears to you to be 10 degrees before TDC isn't.

In my experience, when you turn the distributor of a running engine past the proper advance toward TDC the idle speed increases drastically. I'm wondering if the fast idle you see is indication that the timing is already too retarded and when you move toward the "correct" timing mark (I assume that you are coming at the mark from the advance side.) you are further retarding it to the point that it begins to loose power, where the ignition fires after the pistons are well past TDC, and eventually arrives at the point where they provide no power at all and the engine dies.

John Gunn
Coronado, CA

[nitrofarm]

Idle Air Bypass Valve perhaps....its what allows air to the motor under idle (throttle plate closed) conditions.

[shadetree]

Have you cked your crank gear for being wobbled ? The b6t engines are known for it !! Also more info on the engine like did it run when you got it or ?????

[JohnGunn]

Just got back from taking a long walk on which I spent some time thinking about this problem. One idea emerged as the most likely. It is based upon your assurance that the camshaft and crankshaft are perfectly aligned with one another. And my belief that your engine is "bogging" and dying due to an excessive degree of retardation. But how could such confusion be possible?

What if you had switched the spark plug wire of the first cylinder with another cylinder's wire? Your timing light would be flashing not for cylinder 1 but for the other cylinder. That might explain how the relationship between the mark on the pulley and the performance of the engine could be so misleading.

The firing order is 1-4-3-2. I think if you switched the 1 and 3 wires the engine might run pretty well, but if the switch were to 4 or 2 the result could produce the kind of confusion you are experiencing. Since the wire for 4 is the shortest, my guess would be that wire 2 is attached to cylinder 1.

So, check this out and let us know.

John Gunn
Coronado, CA

[festivBS]

sorry it's been so long since i've been able to get on here, JohnGunn- the mark on the crank pulley is way towards the left where there is another plastic thing that sticks out (i'd share pictures with you but car is at another location right now) and as we get it closer to the right (where the timing marks are) it bogs out (like an ignition problem) i've checked for spark and our wires are hooked up as follows: please correct me if i'm wrong but from passenger side of car to driver side the cylinders are 1-2-3-4 correct? because that's how i have them hooked up to my distributer. and shadetree what do you mean by is the crank pulley wobbled? I appreciate all this help

[shadetree]

The crank nose likes to wear out and let the pulley slip ! You might want to ck that ! When I started mine I had two dead cylinders due to clogged injecttors and later found the vaf has to be level ! But I did wait until it was a complete until I started it !! Good luck any more help needed feel free to pm me

[JohnGunn]

sorry it's been so long since i've been able to get on here, JohnGunn- the mark on the crank pulley is way towards the left where there is another plastic thing that sticks out (i'd share pictures with you but car is at another location right now) and as we get it closer to the right (where the timing marks are) it bogs out (like an ignition problem) i've checked for spark and our wires are hooked up as follows: please correct me if i'm wrong but from passenger side of car to driver side the cylinders are 1-2-3-4 correct? because that's how i have them hooked up to my distributer. and shadetree what do you mean by is the crank pulley wobbled? I appreciate all this help

Glad you're back. We can't do this without you.

First, I want to correct a mistake I made in my previous post. The firing order I gave, 1-4-3-2, was wrong. I must have just typed it incorrectly. The proper order is 1-3-4-2. That means, starting with cylinder 1 and going counter clockwise around your distributor, the cylinders fire in that order.

When you mentioned "timing marks" in your last post I was reminded of some Festivas which have timing marks on their engines which were left over from previous models and were not to be used. Instead, those EFI models were timed by alignment with a single pointer extending from the lower timing belt cover. You're right about pictures being helpful.

Trying to get a image of your particular engine I went to this online PDF manual. Download it and look at page 452 and following. Is that a correct reflection of what we are dealing with here, i.e., something very different from the normal EFI Festiva.

Is the procedure presented there the one you are following in setting your timing?

As an experiment, how about attaching your timing light to plug wires 1 through 4, one after the other, to see if any of those wires cause the timing to look more normal? This should do no harm to your engine. It will merely flash its light on the timing marks as each cylinder fires.

John Gunn
Coronado, CA

[JohnGunn]

from passenger side of car to driver side the cylinders are 1-2-3-4 correct?

Correct.

John Gunn
Coronado, CA

[festivBS]

yeah that's the procedure i'm following, im going to work on it today and im gonna take some pictures. image 854284 is the correct one. tonight i will try using different plug wires for my timing light and see what happens. ill post later tonight. thank you all

[festivBS]

Alright i accidently broke my timing light but i took picturs of the crank pulley and cam gear marks.



This pictures the notch on the crank pulley that i put some paint on, and the timing marks on the right and then im not sure what the thing is on the left, but that is where the mark usually hits the light when it sounds like it's running correctly.



This shows where there cam gear marks are at when the mark (on crank pulley) is in the positon it is in the first picture.

i also checked and the plug wires are correct on the dizzy