How Do You Change Spark Plugs?

[Safety Guy]

Chris wrote:

"I've never even taken the plugs out of my V6 to even check them, it runs good so why write a long novel and start getting into the "Zen" on something as simple as changing spark plugs."

Okay, now this strikes me as rather odd. I always will check a used engine of at least the basics of plugs, filters, etc. before using it for a swap, or driving around in a newly bought used car. Are you really that good that you can tell there will be no improvement in power, fuel economy, etc. with new, properly gapped plugs?

I might run a used car for a couple weeks if it is running really well, but before too long I want a look at those plugs to see their condition. With an engine out of the car, there is even more reason to take them out and have a look, especially on your V6, which may be a tad more difficult to remove plugs when installed.

Mind you, I still consider myself to be a "beginner" with engine work and performance mods. I do take the time to check and sometime recheck things due to my inexperience. I've been led to believe that spark plugs are a relatively important element in power and fuel economy. They need to be up to par.

Karl

[TominMO]

I once bought a Ford F-100 and when I checked the plugs, they were in only finger-tight!

[Safety Guy]

Tom wrote:

"I once bought a Ford F-100 and when I checked the plugs, they were in only finger-tight!"

Here ya go! An even more basic reason to "pay attention to detail!"

I'll add, "never trust that the previous owner did things right!"

Karl

[Damkid]

I'm not saying I shouldn't check them but I'm also not going to discuss the phycology of how to do it 3 weeks ahead either

[Zanzer]

John,

As far as plug gap; I trust the engineers who designed the motor to know what range of gap is acceptable for our engines. So if they say a minimum of .039 will work I trust that specification. And so far I haven't had a single issue with running at that tolerance.

Per the spark plug companies; I trust they have a very good R&D division as well. But they are also in the business of selling spark plugs So if you gap it to the maximum as they recommend I'm betting they are telling you this with the intent of selling more plugs because it will errode out of spec faster at .044 than a .039 And by 30k a plug gapped at .044 will be much more likely to be out of spec, but probably by only <.005, in which case I would regap it and reinstall them. I consider a plug with 30k on it to be "middle aged" if the engine is in good condition, exhibiting good AFR (plug condition is a good indicator of this), and no oil fouling. But with that being said, copper core plugs are cheap so if you want to replace the "middle aged" plugs while you have them out, then by all means go for it. Heck, it's less than 10 bucks. I leave them in if they look good and the car I'm working on is for someone who is on a budget and 10 bucks is a lot more $$$ to them than it is to me. If they NEED plugs, I tell them to look in the couch cushions or somewhere and try to dig up the $10 because they'll save it on gas in the long run with a car that runs more efficiently.

There are a few instances where I will gap to the maximum. If i have a [stock] car that's trying to oil foul or is cold natured and acts like it just needs a hotter spark I'll gap them wider because the wider gap gives a slightly hotter spark. Although I felt the need to do this was an indication that the car needed further attention in other areas and the wider gap was just to keep them rolling for the time being. I've also pulled plugs with extremely high milage on them and when I checked the gap they were eroded to .070+ and the car still ran well. I still replaced the plugs but the excessive gap wasn't a deal breaker as far as operation... it just needed new plugs to run at optimum performance.

[nitrofarm]

But whoever you pay will not take the time to do the little things, like putting anti-seize on the threads or indexing them (if you care about that). Because time is money for the mechanic too.

Very true,if you use anti seeze your a friend of mine-

I've never even taken the plugs out of my V6 to even check them, it runs good so why would I write a long novel and start getting into the "Zen" on something as simple as changing spark plugs

K.I.S.S. - keep it simple stupid

Thats because you guys dont have "medical Kush" at every corner. Consider the location

[kellen302]

Next: How do you turn up the volume on the radio two clicks?

[JohnGunn]

Forgive me for not thoroughly reading this thread, just the title alone makes me want to :banghead:

I take full responsibility for the title. You, however, are solely responsible for banging your head against the wall of your choosing.

In my way of thinking, time is money. I make $26 an hour at my job. If a process such as changing spark plugs takes longer than half an hour, it would be cheaper paying someone else to do it. So I get the plugs, gap em, slap em in. Im not driving a race car. Same goes with changing the oil, distributor cap etc.

To that I say, in my opinion, a life in which every action is judged by the amount of money it makes or looses is poverty stricken.

I've never even taken the plugs out of my V6 to even check them, it runs good so why would I write a long novel and start getting into the "Zen" on something as simple as changing spark plugs

K.I.S.S. - keep it simple stupid

Clearly, Damkid, you don't like much about me and my way of thinking. That's OK by me. A long time ago I gave up trying to make everyone like me. I used to try, but found that when I did, I became a person that everyone tolerated but that few actually liked. So, I decided I would do whatever I thought best, knowing that some people, like you and anomoly40 in this case, would dislike or even hate me for it. No significant act is without unintended side effects. If your hatred is the cost of being true to my own beliefs, it is for me a small price to pay.

As to your refusal to get into the Zen of something as simple as changing spark plugs. You don't need to worry about that. Zen might tell you that even the simplest things in life can be of great value, for instance breathing.

I wonder who you are referring to in your K.I.S.S. qoute? I suspect it might be me. In my fairly long life there have only been two people who actually called me stupid to my face. Myself and you, just now. Maybe that's why my reaction when I read it was to smile.

I'm not saying I shouldn't check them but I'm also not going to discuss the phycology of how to do it 3 weeks ahead either

I get it, Damkid. You don't like me, the title of my thread, the thoroughness of my mental processes, and the amount of time I spend on simple things. I'll even bet if I had a religion, you wouldn't like that either. You aren't forced to read my threads. They make you want to beat your head against a wall. Why do you do that? Have you run out of people to hate? If so, I say fine, if it must be, let it be someone like me who can only be harmed by people he respects.


It is clear that these two members and I are just about as far apart as human beings can get. Their values are not the same as mine. And as you can see, I am content with that. At one early stage of my life I might have chosen to fight back and argue with them. As a pretty successful debater in high school and college, that would not be a problem for me. But along my way though life I noticed that as soon as people start arguing they stop listening. Or rather they start listening only for the purpose gathering amunition to use in their subsequent attack on their opponent. That being the case, I decided I would not longer give my time to it.

So, what should I do, if I believe argumentation and debate is just so much wasted air? I decided the best thing for me to do was to simply state my honest belief about the topic of dispute and leave it at that. So here it is.

From the first time I drove a Festiva in 1994, I sensed an affection for it that I had never felt for a car. At the time, I couldn't have explained it, but after over 16 years of driving one, now I can. At the heart of my affection is the work of the people who designed it. Those 16 years have convinced me that they succeeded in producing the perfect means of transportation in a modern country where people have access to good roads. It is efficient, reliable, easy to work on, and fun to drive. In those 16 years the car never left me stranded. I got 42 miles per gallon. Spent really almost nothing on repairs, most of which I did myself.

So, maybe you will understand, when I say I developed an attachment to it. It soon became much more than a piece of cheap iron that I could use and abuse until it broke down and I had to go out and buy another one. It was like a member of my family, or like an super tool which stood ready for my use whenever and for whatever purpose I needed it. It served me well over all that time, and my response to its reliable service was to give it the best care I was capable of providing. It had nothing to do with giving only the minimal amount of attention necessary for it to continue functioning. I wanted to give it my absolutely best efforts. And as I acquired more resources I spent money on things like the best oil, brake fluid, and replacement parts that I could find. It wasn't really about keeping it running, it was about repaying it for the outstanding service it had given me for so many years.

In that process, I realized an even more important reason for giving my Festiva the best care I was able to provide. It made me feel good. I felt creative when I figured out a cleaner way to route the spark plug wires so they would touch as little as possible. Not because it was missing, for it almost never did that, but because it was an improvement. When I finished any job that I had done to the best of my ability, I felt proud and happy. And as I drove home to my apartment and heard how well and smoothly it ran, I smiled and felt a pleasant surge of what I would call elation.

I doubt any of this will mean much to Damkid or anomoly40. They are concerned with other, more important, matters, like money, time, and really complex problems. But that's alright. Maybe you noticed, I stop talking to them a while back. This is really meant for those of you who hear in what I have said something that you yourself have experienced. It's really to let you know the views of people like Damkid and anomoly40, are nothing more than their own personal opinions. And they are worth only what you believe them to be worth based on you own experience. Changing their minds isn't worth the effort, but having the courage to disagree with them, when your experience tells you they are wrong, is.

[anomoly40]

Im glad you see my view as an opinion. Im not trying to change you. Im saying I have other things to do with my time than to stare at what is essentially a piece of metal. Im sure Damkid does too. What Damkid and I have in common is that we have young children. Now, children aren't cheap. So when im not spending time with them, Im making money for a comfortable living for them. They are too young to help us with our cars, so I've developed very efficient ways to do everyday tasks to spend more time with them. I've carried this over to child maintenance as well. Tasks such as feeding and changing diapers are best done quickly and efficiently. Some tasks done with a slow pace with painstaking photo documentation can label you a pervert and comes with jail time.

For me, time spent with my little one is infinitely better than without.

[Damkid]

Yup I'm on the same page as anomoly, when I work on my car I want my time to be efficient instead of debating for a half hour as to how to take a spark plug out

It's not a reflection of my opinion of you personally, it just makes me wanna say "just do it already!!" but I obviously don't have the patience that you do either

[JohnGunn]

Im glad you see my view as an opinion. Im not trying to change you. Im saying I have other things to do with my time than to stare at what is essentially a piece of metal. Im sure Damkid does too. What Damkid and I have in common is that we have young children. Now, children aren't cheap. So when im not spending time with them, Im making money for a comfortable living for them. They are too young to help us with our cars, so I've developed very efficient ways to do everyday tasks to spend more time with them. I've carried this over to child maintenance as well. Tasks such as feeding and changing diapers are best done quickly and efficiently. Some tasks done with a slow pace with painstaking photo documentation can label you a pervert and comes with jail time.

For me, time spent with my little one is infinitely better than without.

Well spoken, my friend. When faced with the choices you describe I don't believe there would be .039" distance between us. I feel justly chastened and apologize for being so quick to take offense without knowing anything about your particular situation.

But let me ask one favor of you.

I sensed in your comments a suggestion that, in addition to the fact that you, personally, didn't have time to spend on such relatively trivial matters, you thought those of us who did were foolish or benighted in some fundamental way. I have no problem with your saying that you think something is not right for you, but I resist the suggestion that, of necessity, anything that is not right for you is also not right for me and the other people who were participating in the thread with some obvious degree of interest and pleasure.

So here is the favor. In future, when you express a negative opinion of what others find interesting, would it be possible to pause a moment and consider the effect your negative comment might have on those who seem content with what they are doing?

Regardless of what you decide to do, when people with different values are able to discuss their differences with tolerance and understanding, there is still hope for peace on earth.

[JohnGunn]

Yup I'm on the same page as anomoly, when I work on my car I want my time to be efficient instead of debating for a half hour as to how to take a spark plug out

It's not a reflection of my opinion of you personally, it just makes me wanna say "just do it already!!" but I obviously don't have the patience that you do either

It's true you don't have my patience (No one I know does.), and I'm sure there are strengths you have that I don't, but I hope you'll agree that neither one of us has the right to force our values on anyone else. What kind of world would we have if every one, regardless of differences, was forced to behave in the exact same way?

Since you don't know me well and can't appreciate how my mind works, it is truly impossible for you to know what will come from anything I do. To tell me, or anyone for that matter, to "just do it already" smacks of arrogant disrespect. If you can't see that from your perspective, trust me when I say from mine, that is the case.

Maybe, you are arrogant and, maybe, you were trying to show disrespect. And, maybe, you are satisfied and happy to have given that appearance. I have no way of knowing any of that.

Please allow me one small request. If any of my threads or posts ever make you want to beat your head against a wall again, skip them. I promise I'll not hold that against you.

[Damkid]

It's true you don't have my patience (No one I know does.), and I'm sure there are strengths you have that I don't, but I hope you'll agree that neither one of us has the right to force our values on anyone else. What kind of world would we have if every one, regardless of differences, was forced to behave in the exact same way?

I agree to this, a good example is johovah's witnesses trying to preach to me at my door step, i tell them if i want to hear the word of god then i'd go to church

Since you don't know me well and can't appreciate how my mind works, it is truly impossible for you to know what will come from anything I do. To tell me, or anyone for that matter, to "just do it already" smacks of arrogant disrespect. If you can't see that from your perspective, trust me when I say from mine, that is the case.

Maybe, you are arrogant and, maybe, you were trying to show disrespect. And, maybe, you are satisfied and happy to have given that appearance. I have no way of knowing any of that.

Thats just me showing my lack of patience for simplest of tasks, has nothing to do with being ignorant, rude, arrogant, disrespectful or anything like that

Please allow me one small request. If any of my threads or posts ever make you want to beat your head against a wall again, skip them. I promise I'll not hold that against you.

Gladly but i will say it's been a fun phycology lesson

and just for the heck of it :lol:

[Safety Guy]

John! With all due respect, LIGHTEN UP!!

I doubt very much anyone was showing you any "disrespect." They were simply and informally expressing their opinions. True, there were no kid gloves worn, but this place is pretty informal.

As Anomaly explained, there are many variables. Between different people, there will be many more variables in how they process information, make decisions, even how they think.

You think very differently and methodically along certain planes that may be foreign to many folks on here. I find it fascinating! Your background is fascinating! I think that in small ways you are contributing a lot to this forum and those ways will only get bigger and brighter as you become "better understood" to us. It won't happen overnight though, and it may not always seem perfectly friendly to you (just a guess).

Look up a member named "Bobstadt" and read some of his ramblings. He's another interesting character who strikes me as some old Storytelling Marxist Hippie Wanderer. Unfortunately, I can only take so much of his writing (sorry Bob!). But I do read some of his stuff and he would probably be a hoot to meet in real life.

I hope you don't take offense to my suggestion to lighten up! Keep in mind I was in the Army and everyone busts everyone's balls all the time for anything and everything. Not suitable for all occasions; it's just a different sort of "environment."

Same here. We have a "behavior continuum" and it can be all over the place. Most of it is benign and not intended to be rude.

For that, go to the "Arena."

Karl

[JohnGunn]

I agree to this, a good example is johovah's witnesses trying to preach to me at my door step, i tell them if i want to hear the word of god then i'd go to church



Thats just me showing my lack of patience for simplest of tasks, has nothing to do with being ignorant, rude, arrogant, disrespectful or anything like that



Gladly but i will say it's been a fun phycology lesson

and just for the heck of it :lol:

Damkid. You're :toothy2: bleeding on my screen.