Bit of an Oil Leak!!

[Prafeston]

I was told by my friend who installed my transmission a couple months ago that I had an oil pan gasket leak so I've been putting in a little oil here and there and leaving a half dollar size spot just about anytime I parked anywhere. I've been waiting til I needed another oil change to address that gasket and was planning on doing that last weekend before I found out it was a little more involved than I was hoping and I had a trip planned for the weekend. I took my trip (roughly 550 miles during the weekend) and when I was getting close to home I noticed a ticking noise when in gear or giving it gas. I had heard this before and it was when I was quite low on oil. I got in around 10:30 Sunday night and didn't wanna mess with it. I figured I was low on oil so I didn't drive my car to work the last two days. After work today I moved the car back a bit to get it on leveler ground to start prepping for the oil change and pan gasket. Well that's when I found the underside of my car covered in oil and the Micro Machine had marked it's territory all over my driveway!

I had the valve cover gasket replaced several months ago and the rear main seal was done when I had the transmission swapped not long ago. I took a bunch of pictures to hopefully help narrow down where the leak is coming from. Is it just my pan gasket? What else could it be? Cam seals?

Here are the pics.

I've been leaking small amounts in several spots in my driveway for just about as long as I've owned the car...so it's mark has been spreading over the 10 months I've owned it, but you can see the darker/fresher spots from it sitting the last two days. The oil was so caked underneath that it was dripping off from the front of the gas tank!


Sorry about some of these. It's hard to take good pictures underneath a Festiva! Plus it was starting to get dark.


















I guess the good news is there was some oil still in the pan! Though not much.

[Zanzer]

It's kind of hard to tell from the pics but it looks pretty clean, or I guess I should say dry, above the pan flange(?) Oil is like blood and a little spill goes a long way and can look worse than it actually is. Whenever I have an oil leak on a dirty/oily engine and it's hard to tell exactly where it originates from I spray everything down with Superclean and then clean it well with a pressure washer. I then let it sit until everything has dried off and go for a quick trip around the block. When I get back I jack it, pop the hood, and start looking for any leaks.

Seeing as you've already done the VC gasket and rear main, you could install a new cam seal, front crank seal, and distributor o-ring after you do the pan gasket and you should have everything covered. They're pretty easy to do and worth the peace of mind if you like to put a lot of miles on the car. EDIT: That would be a good opportunity to check/change the timing belt too if you're unsure of it's condition...good idea to check the water pump while you're there too

[nitrofarm]

Well the most difficult seal is the Rear Main and you said you replaced it. Front main isnt that hard and it makes sense to do the cam seal at the same time as the front. Looks like your oil filter is soaked so make sure you check the oil sending unit thats on the back of the block. The valve cover gaskets usually dont leak that bad on the back because the motor is canted forward. I have had real good luck with the Pan Gaskets NOT LEAKING on these B3's. My experience's have been the cam,dizzy & main seals dry rot but the pan gaskets seem to stay tight. Good Luck & dont run it dry anymore you'll kick yourself if you damage your rings & cyl walls.
JINXED I TYPE TO SLOW!

[Prafeston]

Thanks for the input guys. I'm guessing that I'd need to drain the oil to do all these seals? If so I might as well try to get them all done now. Or else I'd just be replacing my pan gasket and waiting another 3k miles or doing an oil change quicker than I'd need to..

I'd like to have my car for the weekend again. I travel the 500 mile round trip almost every weekend.

[Zanzer]

You can do the cam and front crank seals without draining the oil. Both seals are higher than the oil level in the pan. Although I'm not exactly sure if the oil will try to run out the front if you need to drop the front of the engine down some to gain access to the crank seal. I like to drop the oil during replacement because I'm typically going to change it anyway....but I'm OCD like that. If you drive that many miles every weekend I'd definitely recommend changing them and the timing belt and at least inspect the water pump while you're in there.


And as Nitro said, I've seen more seal failures than pan gasket failures on the cars. Most pans I've removed were still sealed well and took a bit of effort to remove no matter how high the mileage.

[nitrofarm]

One last thing about the Pan gasket,its feasible to do without pulling the tranny.But its much much easier without the tranny in the way. If your not careful it will leak from a improper install.I would recommend you do the pan gasket if the other seals and sending unit dont fix your leaks.

[Prafeston]

Man, with my AC lines in the way it sure was a pain in the butt to get the timing belt cover off. Took some more pics once I did get it off though...see if there are any signs of leakage from around that area.

[nitrofarm]

Get #1 cyl @ TDC and line up those timing belt marks,loosen the tensioner & remove the the two gears. Then before you pull out your old seals hose the whole are with de greaser and make it so clean you can eat off it.

[Prafeston]

TDC?

[sc72]

TDC=Top Dead Center, that's when the #1 piston is at the top of it's stroke.

[Prafeston]

Do I need to remove my valve cover to do the crank seal? I already replaced my VC gasket and I'd hate to have to get another one...it's only been installed for like 3 months.

[nitrofarm]

Do I need to remove my valve cover to do the crank seal? I already replaced my VC gasket and I'd hate to have to get another one...it's only been installed for like 3 months.

No if your careful to not push the cam seal inwards.

[Prafeston]

How do I get the #1 cyl at TDC?

[nitrofarm]

How do I get the #1 cyl at TDC?

Pull spark plugs out & rotate crank with ratchet & socket via Crank Shaft.When #1 is close to the top stick your finger on the plug hole and you will feel the compression trying to pressurize. If not its on exhaust stroke & you'll have to go another complete revolution..

[zoom zoom]

You can pop that valve cover off and reuse the gasket many many times. I don't think I've ever bought one for these cars and I play with the lifters more than..well, you get the point! I might end up buying a new gasket for the new b6 because its been overtorqued and the gasket is smashed pretty good, but being as cheap as I am ill probably remove the shims/spacers on each bolt and crank it down some more lol..