Lower pulley timing marks: B3 vs. B6

[Safety Guy]

My new engine is running sluggish and I need to make sure timing is correct. I had to put on my own distributor as it didn't come with one.

I have the timing covers and pulleys off now. I checked the crank and cam marks and they line up fine. (So much for my theory that I was off a tooth.)

I had become under the impression that lower pulley timing marks between B3 and B6 were different, and I had changed my old lower pulley mark to match the B6 lower pulley (or what I thought was it's original lower pulley--maybe I got it from somewhere else?) mark. They were considerably different locations.

My B3 lower pulleys have two scratched mark locations right near the lone pointer when everything is TDC, as in the shop manual. This is just to the left of 12 o'clock.

The B6 (?) lower pulley has one scratch mark at around 1 o'clock or one-thirty position.

Rockauto indicates timing cover gasket sets are the same for B3 and B6. I think timing covers are the same, with same pointer locations, etc.

I'll paint the markers & put everything back together and put the timing light on it. I hope I'm just way off timing.

I had timed my old B6 with the changed mark. Maybe that shortened the head gasket seal somehow? I'm pretty sure changing the timing mark on the pulley didn't help.

Any ideas or advice welcome!

Karl

[Safety Guy]

I think this is my main question:

If I've been driving way out of timing for awhile, would that hurt the engine at all?

Karl

[M3NTAL]

As long as your not hearing detonation (which you cannot always hear) and are running good fuel, you should be ok.

Have you tried just moving the dizzy by "feel" thats what i would do.

[Safety Guy]

Yep, I adjusted the distributor by sound and feel.

Karl

[Safety Guy]

I forgot to say "thanks M3NTAL!"



This morning I messed with the idle and put on the timing light. I think I was way advanced. Now it's lined up with the pointer, per the shop manual.

A test drive showed improvement, especially at low speeds. When Trying to hurry up to 35mph however, there is still some hesitation. I'll get me some better timing tools and try again soon.

1. Not sure I grounded the STI black single connector properly. I hooked a wire to the nearest radiator overflow stud under the 10mm nut. Not sure that grounded it enough, or that sticking the bare wire into the connector did the trick. I'll get out my soldering set and do up a pin on the end of the wire, and maybe a U hook on the other end. (I'd like to keep this wire under the hood ready to use.)

2. I couldn't find my new HF timing light. Oh, and BTW, I just thought I didn't check the advance dial on the end of my old one! Have to check that. Hmmm. Trying to be thorough and I still messed up!

3. Also want to get a good tach to hook up under the hood. I might go for that Craftsman timing light with tach after all.

I just need to refine my tools and technique.

Then another Seafoam treatment!

Or two...

Karl

[zoom zoom]

Im kinda lost in this thread, my head is stuffed full of other things right now cramming for UsCG tests, but it would make sense to me that if your using a b3 pulley, use a b3 cover too. If your using a b6 pulley, use the b6 cover.

I know you dont drive her too hard but you can blow the HG quick if you go revving it high under load, or even drive it easy for a long time way out of time.

Rmoltis just bumped an old thread where arty posted how to set timing in the second post. You can ignore all the other posts in that thread but arty's post is what I was trying to explain to you awhile back about how I used to time my cars... I used less words and detail.

Anymore i just do it by ear and feel. Flick the throttle open and adjusts till it starts getting laggy pick up after flicking he throttle, then turn it back slowly till it idles lowest with no lag. Drive it if it dont feel right adjust more. Gotta hit high rpms too cause if you dont have enough advance the engine wont want to rev to 6k it will take forever.

[Safety Guy]

Thanks Matt. What's the title of that thread?

Karl

[zoom zoom]

purchace a vacuum gauge. with engine warm, take a reading of intake vacuum pressure. shut down or disable ignition advance control and increase mechanical timing. take another reading. continue process untill engine vacuum reaches a maximum (no vacuum increase with subsiquent timing increase). NOTE: base idle must be reset each time the timing is adjusted (use 700rpm as a constant). once maximum vacuum is reached, enable advance control, testdrive and listen for ping or knock. if any is heard, decrease mechanical advance by 2* and re-test.

The reason I say to ignore the other posts is because it's relevant to his car specifically and not yours. I have a B pillar apparatus with rpm and vacuum gauge mounted that I jam between the battery and radiator support with power/ground wires wrapped together and vacuum tube with a T on it and tach signal wire ready to be attached. I use the aligator clips from the timing light to hold the power and ground wires to the battery lol. Works great just wish I hadn't skimped on the gauges.

Funny story, not really, I spent 20 minutes digging it up untangling it and hooking it up to the b6t when rob was over, then realized I misplaced my lower timing cover(i have it cut out to have the timing marks line up and be held on by 1 bolt)so we ended up doing it by ear anyway.. Haha i tried.

[rmoltis]

Rmoltis just bumped an old thread where arty posted how to set timing in the second post. You can ignore all the other posts in that thread but arty's post is what I was trying to explain to you awhile back about how I used to time my cars... I used less words and detail.

hey thats my thread! And dont ignore the other posts :-P
i finally got everything dialed in spot on today. :-D


and yes i like to use a lot of words to decribe everything lol.

but i figure its the write up i would have loved to have found online on any forum anywhere.
because it explains many different variables that may or may not match up with other peoples problems.

the main thing that didnt work for me was using the vacuum guage for ignition timing.
it would get a nice and high engine idle vacuum.
but when you would try and accellerate there would be much resistance from the piston fighting the expanding mixture, and wouldnt make good power above 4500rpm.
now i dont use engine vacuum as a starting point for timing.

i just use;
1.)distributor for timing adjust
2.)adjustable fuel pressure regulator to change the air fuel ratios to e10 and position peak torque rpm with.
3.)engine idle mixture screw
4.)sti connector jumper
5.)scanguage II for real time data such as; engine load, ignition timing, idle rpm, coolant temp F, and sometimes 02 sensor feedback.


here is the thread btw, i added as much information as possible to explain many things,
and even what some of them may feel like driving in the car.

http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/showthread.php?50009-ignition-timing-after-full-header-back-exhaust-installation

good luck with your troubles, hey safety guy tho, if you had an afpr it would really help you dial in the correct afr's for e10
which the stock fpr wont adjust for since its out of the psi range it delivers.
just a though tho.

[TorqueEffect]

Yeah, been working with a cheap autozone timing light trying to get the B6 in time. But kinda hard when I can't get the engine to idle at the right speed.
I can get the timing dead on at 8* BTDC (Factory spec) when it idles at 1100 or 1200 RPMs, but at 900 RPMS or lower, the timing mark bounces on the timing scale by about 1-2 degrees. That and the pickup is terrible.

[Safety Guy]

It sounds like we need to have a "Timing Clinic" at Ohiostiva.

Who agrees with me?

Karl

[TorqueEffect]

It sounds like we need to have a "Timing Clinic" at Ohiostiva.

Who agrees with me?

Karl

:thumbs_up:

[rmoltis]

Lol too bad my flight gets back around 9:30pm on the 24th or else I'd make it.
Especially since its in my city!!

How come when these come to my town I can't go!!!!!
Ahhhhh!!!

[WmWatt]

Karl, I ground STI to strut opening in fender. Using a piece of stiff copper wire, I stick one end in white plastic connector, jam other end between strut and fender. Good ground.

[bravekozak]

I cannot see the timing mark on my B6 crankshaft pulleys.
I cannot feel any notch either.
I should have marked TDC before I installed the cylinder head.
Oh well. Sound and feel time (+ a little Gunson flame color).