Advanced Suspension Mods

[Advancedynamix]

Tom,
The part number for the long white bump stops is1J0 512 131B
You have to cut the widest bulb off or sand it to fit the 1 7/8 springs. You can stack and cut bump stops to suit your application.

[TominMO]

Aaaaannd....installed. Changes I made were adding an extra rubber donut below the hole in the body, for a little more height, and turning the adjusting nut up to near the top of the threaded collar. I removed the flattened washer, no need for it. I took it around the block on my bumpy alley to settle the shocks a bit; felt good, but actual driving will be the test. I think the 105# springs will do well. If not, there's always 120#.

The yellow stripe is electrical tape under the collar, which does not go all the way down to the lower shelf. Thought I'd add a little color. On the driver's side the tape is blue, for kwik reference as to which shock I'm working on if I have them both off together.


I drilled and tapped the three set-screw indents on the adjusting nut for 1/4-20 x 5/16" long set screws. I picked up a drill/tap combo for this size, ~$5. Blue Loc-tite on the screw threads. I only used two screws per side.


Showing the ride height. About the same as before, possibly slightly higher. I now have ~1.25" clearance between the tire and the spring, without spacers. These are 155/80-13s on 4 1/2" wide rims; so a 14x6 rim with similar offset and 165/55-14 tires would still give ~1/2" clearance.

[TominMO]

This page shows the exact Bilstein I have on the Festy's rear. A kwik check with Rock Auto confirms that it fits both the 93 Cabriolet and 82 Rabbit. They describe it as a 46mm monotube design; so I can order the 46mm coilover parts from SW Speed for this! Nice! For this application I would be using the 2 9/16" ID springs--which come in 10/12/14" sizes, so more flexibility in ride height. I'm looking at the 12" or 14" 120# springs. My Festy is set up for towing too; this would give a lot of choice in setting the car up for DD, towing, offroad even. These springs are still much narrower than stock springs, so no wheel/tire clearance issues either--and no spacers!

Forgot to mention that SW Speed included a 260-page paper catalog with the order.

[TominMO]

OK, I put it all together for a trial fitting, using parts I had laying around, with the stuph I got from SW Speed. They sent my parts out the same day I ordered them BTW. This is for the Aspire. I didn't follow Charlie's setup on top; I am curious what he has to say about this layout. Will it work well, or will it flip the car over like a Ford Exploder and automatically burst into flames?

I had to do some light trimming of the chrome seal at the top of the strut body, to clear the threaded sleeve. Five light passes around with my cutoff wheel used as a grinder did the trick. I put a little electrical tape on the seal (~3/4 around) and at the bottom of the strut where the sleeve sits on the shelf (twice around), just to make a tighter fit.

Here's the assembled unit. 105# springs. I didn't drill and tap any of the three locations for a set screw yet. Charlie, do I need to do all three, or is one good enough? Also, what is the part # for those white bump stops? All mine are too large for these springs, except this used orange one I had laying around. I re-used the black bump stop the same way you did.


Closeup of the top. That bumper fit nicely in there, and became my "top hat". The flattened washer sits on the first notch in the shaft, at the bottom of the threads.


The "exploded" view. The top unflattened washer in pics 2 & 3 represents the strut hole at the top in the unibody, and will not be used. Not shown here is another rubber piece and the top metal washer for under the nut.The flattened washer is just like that one, but got the BFH treatment.

[Advancedynamix]

1. The Rio has 175# front springs, but I want to change out my stock Festy front springs and go to 150s on the Festy--assuming I can find a good solution for the rear Bilsteins. One solution would be to just use Festy fronts of course, but I wanted to go to a narrower spring for tire/wheel clearance reasons.
2. ---
3. Yeah I wondered about just using the bump stop. Good pic there.
4. Toby was very helpful.

I'm gonna hafta come up with a solution for my top hat too. I'm hoping I can just use the rubber spring isolator up there, like we do on stock springs. But we'll see.....I might just test-fit the 12" springs and if they are too short, return them and go with 14s.

Yeah, trial and error. I think 150 is a good starting point. Make sure your springs never float loosely. They should be secured snugly by the shock. If you need more sag, then you need a softer rate, not a shorter spring. The spring should never be fully unloaded.

[TominMO]

^^ Based on what you just wrote, I re-called SW Speed and went back to my original order: 36mm adjusters, 10" long, 1 7/8" 105# springs. This will probably give me a lower ride height than I now have, so I may cut the front springs another half-coil to start. (It has good bump stops!) I might buy the 120# springs as an alternative, to swap in for towing; or keep them on and sell the 105# ones.

[Advancedynamix]

Just talked to Toby @ SW Speed about my order, and made some changes. He said that I needed the 46mm sleeve/nut and the 2 1/2" (2 9/16") spring size for the KYBs, not 1 7/8"; so I ordered that with their lightest 12" spring, 120#. Twelve inches will give me some adjustability up and down, vs. being maxed out at the top.

For the Bilsteins, he didn't think he had anything in stock, sleeve-wise, to accommodate the 2"-diameter body, and suggested I contact Bilstein somewhere in Calif.

The small body 36mm bilstein sleeve fits the rear KYB VW shocks perfectly. I wouldn't suggest using the larger sleeves, because they won't locate on the register ring that's already on the kyb shock. Also, the larger diameter springs will have a different rate rise, so I'm not sure what to suggest for a base rate.

I sand the weld area a bit so the sleeve slides over it, and on these shocks I used a little electrical tape to help snug the sleeve. I typically glue the sleeve with windshield glue, but wanted to be able to take these apart for testing.

The small body 36mm bilstein sleeve from southwest speed then fits over the kyb VW shock nicely and locates perfectly on the register. This all fits like these parts were made for each other.

Then I use a 10" long 1 7/8 diameter springs from southwest speed.
I used 105lb springs on this car, as a test. This spring will allow for 7" wide wheels and 4 degrees of negative camber in the back, while still being able to ride 4 or more inches lower than stock. For a car that's only running 2-3" lower, with a typical festiva load, I'd suggest 120lb springs. For a car being used to tow or carry extra weight in the back I suggest 150lb springs.

The base spring rate effects the rate at which the spring rate rises. Running too stiff a base rate will cause the car to ride too high and feel stiff and bouncy. These VW shocks have a lot of rebound dampening, so 150lb springs won't feel bouncy, but they will give a very firm ride and could cause the car to tend to drift.

[TominMO]

1. I'm not sure on rate or length for the Rio Struts. Rate depends on length and how much sag you need, also what spring rate rise will match your shocks valving. I've never used the Rio struts, so I'm not sure what kind of rate rise will compliment them. The front spring rate is critical on these cars. Matching the load, rate rise and shock valving is very important.

2. If the bilstein bodies are thicker than the kyb bodies then they won't work with the 1 7/8" sleeves. I don't have any suggestions for a good solution to this. I've only used the KYB shocks. This is good information to keep in mind.
3. I protect the shock shaft with the long vw bump stop. It provides much more protection than a bellow could, and fits snugly inside the small body sleeve. This covers all but 1" of the very top of the shaft at ride height.
4. I used to talk to AJ, but he hasn't answered the phone the last few times I've called. All the guys are very friendly and helpful.

1. The Rio has 175# front springs, but I want to change out my stock Festy front springs and go to 150s on the Festy--assuming I can find a good solution for the rear Bilsteins. One solution would be to just use Festy fronts of course, but I wanted to go to a narrower spring for tire/wheel clearance reasons.
2. ---
3. Yeah I wondered about just using the bump stop. Good pic there.
4. Toby was very helpful.

I'm gonna hafta come up with a solution for my top hat too. I'm hoping I can just use the rubber spring isolator up there, like we do on stock springs. But we'll see.....I might just test-fit the 12" springs and if they are too short, return them and go with 14s.

[Advancedynamix]

Charlie, I went thru this whole thread and didn't see the answers to a few questions I had.

1. I have '01 Rio front struts with stock Festy springs cut one coil. To replace the Festy springs with 150# Black Magics, would I use the 2 9/16" diameter springs from SW Speed? Should I go with 10", 12" or 14" long, to end up with the same ride height as my slightly-cut front springs? Am I even on the right track here?

2. For the Festy's rear, I have the 93 VW Cabriolet Bilsteins. They are noticeably thicker than the KYBs for the same application. What diameter threaded sleeve/nut do I need for the Bilstein and also for the KYB? (The VW KYBs are on the Aspire.)

3. Is there a thinner strut bellow available to protect the strut shaft from dirt when using the 1 7/8" springs?

4. What's the name of the guy you suggested we talk to at SW Speed? (I don't want to go back thru your whole thread to find it!)

I'm gonna go with 10" long, 1 7/8" diameter, 105# and 120# for the Festy and Aspire rears, respectively, since the Aspire is a heavier car.

1. I'm not sure on rate or length for the Rio Struts. Rate depends on length and how much sag you need, also what spring rate rise will match your shocks valving. I've never used the Rio struts, so I'm not sure what kind of rate rise will compliment them. The front spring rate is critical on these cars. Matching the load, rate rise and shock valving is very important.

2. If the bilstein bodies are thicker than the kyb bodies then they won't work with the 1 7/8" sleeves. I don't have any suggestions for a good solution to this. I've only used the KYB shocks. This is good information to keep in mind.

3. I protect the shock shaft with the long vw bump stop on top of the supplied kyb bump stop that's been pressed into the adjuster sleeve. This provides great protection of the shock shaft. The stacked bump stops covers all but 1" of the very top of the shaft at ride height. This 1" will never ride inside the seal of the shock, so it's less critical to keep it covered.

4. I used to talk to AJ, but he hasn't answered the phone the last few times I've called. All the guys are very friendly and helpful.

[TominMO]

Just talked to Toby @ SW Speed about my order, and made some changes. He said that I needed the 46mm sleeve/nut and the 2 1/2" (2 9/16") spring size for the KYBs, not 1 7/8"; so I ordered that with their lightest 12" spring, 120#. Twelve inches will give me some adjustability up and down, vs. being maxed out at the top.

For the Bilsteins, he didn't think he had anything in stock, sleeve-wise, to accommodate the 2"-diameter body, and suggested I contact Bilstein somewhere in Calif.

[TominMO]

I figured out that I can't fit 1 7/8" springs to the Bilsteins, since the shock body diameter is 2"! Can't use either the 36mm or 46mm threaded sleeves and nuts. Guess I'll have to call SW Auto and figure it out with them. They do have other sleeves, for Porsche Carreras. Maybe they'll work.

However, it looks like for the Aspire's KYBs I can use 'em, with 46mm sleeves. The strut body is 1 5/8" thick, which equates to ~41.3mm. The 1 7/8" springs equate to ~47.6mm, which sounds perfect for the 46mm sleeves; .8mm clearance on each side.

For the front struts on both cars, I may have to go with the 5" OD rear springs, which come in 11, 13 and 16" lengths, and all sorts of weights in a useful range for us.

[TominMO]

Charlie, I went thru this whole thread and didn't see the answers to a few questions I had.

1. I have '01 Rio front struts with stock Festy springs cut one coil. To replace the Festy springs with 150# Black Magics, would I use the 2 9/16" diameter springs from SW Speed? Should I go with 10", 12" or 14" long, to end up with the same ride height as my slightly-cut front springs? Am I even on the right track here?

2. For the Festy's rear, I have the 93 VW Cabriolet Bilsteins. They are noticeably thicker than the KYBs for the same application. What diameter threaded sleeve/nut do I need for the Bilstein and also for the KYB? (The VW KYBs are on the Aspire.)

3. Is there a thinner strut bellow available to protect the strut shaft from dirt when using the 1 7/8" springs?

4. What's the name of the guy you suggested we talk to at SW Speed? (I don't want to go back thru your whole thread to find it!)

I'm gonna go with 10" long, 1 7/8" diameter, 105# and 120# for the Festy and Aspire rears, respectively, since the Aspire is a heavier car.

[Advancedynamix]

All 4 of the cars in that photo have the suspension that's outlined in this thread. Thanks for posting Clif!

[cliferton]

I also got to take a ride in tweak when charlie and his festiva gang stopped by our shop oh their way home from madness. Great group of guys with great taste in cars

Tweak is a beast that's all you can say. It is stupid fast but super smooth it dosent really feel like a turbo car. But your instantly over 100 but think your doing 60. The car is on rails too I can feel the difference that moving the motor for and and doing the front body brace give. I've been working on a tweakish clone, but when you get to ride in one you get in more of a hurry to get it finished. Every festiva should be like tweak lol

[cliferton]

I've been running the suspension setup all summer on stock power. I am running 160 lb in the front and 140 lb in the rear. Daily driving all in all is really good. The rear is a little stiff in a gutted car, but the faster you go the better it gets. In autox it does well. I'm usually in first by 2-5 seconds in my class and am running top 3 awd times at our autox. On the track the 60ish hp to the ground is the limiting factor ever on 700 treadwear tires. I am running charlies setup with a modified rear top hats that I will get drawings with measurements posted up soon.