Advanced Suspension Mods

[mikemounlio]

So i have been super happy with how my car handles so far! I have not gotten the suspension proper since i got it all together. I never got the camber in the rear. The camber in the front was always just whatever by eyeball.

Advancedynamix if you can recall the setup that i have done- Is there anything else i should look into or do to my setup to have the best track ability i can get? With my b6t and new turbo (haha if it ever runs) will be more then to much but hey i like messing with stuff so why not right.

[Advancedynamix]

Arty, I'm surprised you haven't done the MK1 vw shock mod yet, you probably have an extra set of scirroco shocks kicking around somewhere. Lol

[Advancedynamix]

Yeah, that's not a problem. Just chop the shafts of some stock fitment KYBs about 5 inches and chop the spring perches and run the small body sleeves and 1 7/8 springs. The stock shocks have more room that way than the VW shocks I'm running now. The valving is softer, but it's not too bad.

[FestYboy]

I'm thinking more of spring perch clearance, but if we're going that far, a version of your suspension would likely be involved and eliminate a lot of that problem.

[Advancedynamix]

Oops, for some reason I thought it was Nate who drew those up. I've gotta dig those drawings up. They are on my old laptop somewhere.
Relocating the beam mounts would be a really involved surgery. There is a lot going on in that area. If the drop plates also provide negative camber then you can still get the tires up in the fenders, but these cars run out of room pretty fast up there. You'd need little low profile 13" tires to really get in the weeds. #goals

[FestYboy]

It wasn't Nate and I, it was another member who's name escapes me at the moment, but he's in PA. Not sure how Nate intertwines with this, it's been a few years since the initial CAD drawings were made.

Also I've been mulling over the idea of relocating the torque boxes and mounts for the rear beam further into the body to change the arm angle instead of loosing what little wheel space we have to drop plates.

[Aspire SVT]

Nice

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[Advancedynamix]

Yeah. Welcome to club low. Haha. As far as I know, we are the first to demand good handling, smooth ride and a low stance. The Nate/Arty spacers in the front and spindle drop plates in the back might be the ticket. I don't think my race tires will fit on the car, but that saves me money anyway. Lol. Not being able to fit my R comps on is the best way to (A) not break things and (B) Not spend money on entry fees and fuel and tires.

[theastronaut]

You just described the way my car is behaving. It's squealing the inside tire pretty badly before it gets near the limit of grip (bump steer?), and it's spinning the inside tire coming out of a corner worse than before even though it's not cornering as hard. The control arm spacers are interesting... I love the way it looks this low but its not as much fun without the grip it had before. I had thought about relocating the inner control arm mounts up higher when I do the B6 swap, but then I'd have to move the sway bar up, and the rear beam mounts up- not worth all the effort just to be low and functional. I'll probably leave the height/alignment it as-is until the next autocross.

[Advancedynamix]

Your correct. These cars seem to handle best at around a 3" drop. There are a few factors here. The control arm angle is one of them, as is the bump steer. One factor that is hard to visualize is the attitude of the sway bar. At an extreme drop it is now angled upward and is less effective at improving traction with TQ. Remember that a trailing link will press downward when loaded with wheel TQ if the rear of the link is lower than the front, but the opposite is true if the rear of the link is higher than the front.
Also, all the bushings are in a bind at these extremely low ride heights. I have poly bushings on my control arms and sway bar to chassis mounts, but it still binds at the height I've got Pedro at right now.
Nate and Arty(skeeters_keeper and FestYboy) designed some control arm spacers awhile back that I have been meaning to try. They space the steering knuckle up from the ball joint and correct the control arm and sway bar angle. I've never needed this before, but now I'm at an all time low. Lol

[theastronaut]

I don't think we've discussed ride height and how it affects suspension geometry and grip. I recently lowered my '88 about an inch up front, put 160 pounds of sand bags in the driver seat, leveled the height side to side, reset the camber to 3*, and the toe to zero. It lost a lot of front grip and it now understeers badly, to the point where I can't get the car to rotate even when trailbraking into a corner. I'm thinking this is due to the lower control arms being level now, and it's losing negative camber as the body rolls. Before with the arms running downhill towards the spindle it would gain camber as it rolled. Am I on the right track here?

The only other thing I changed were the front tires, they're the same as the last pair but I can feel the full tread depth "squirming" around through corners. The old tires were nearly slick but I doubt they made that much difference in the amount of grip.

Edit- forgot to ask, is there an ideal ride height or control arm angle? I see that Miata guys spec a certain ride height when talking alignments.

[Advancedynamix]

Those are nicer than mine. Now to determine where your bolt slots go. That's the tricky part. I've found that the taper centerline should live about 10 degrees advanced from centerline of the top rear and bottom front spindle mount holes. When the car is at rest with a 3" drop, those holes will be close to vertical. If your plates are more than 3 degrees then advance the centerline more. I'm still trying to get my 5 degree plates dialed in.

[jason_]

Love the flip flops in the shop.

Reminds me stick welding in a tee-shirt, no gloves, sandals, and gym shorts.

Any sparks caught just wiggle and shake them off.

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[greywolf200]

That looks very interesting. Fun day in the shop.

[sc72]

Looks interesting let us know what happens.