Project: Get my car Driving Again.

[collegeboi]

ok, first, Pu241: it's a carbed engine, the pump is AFTER the filter. there will be no pressure at the filter.

college: so you've changed the filter, but did you prime it before trying to start it? (install both ends of filter, then follow the output end to the pump. remove that end of the hose and SLOWLY pour fuel untill it can't take any more and you can see very little air in the filter. re-install the hose and remove the coil wire from the distro. crank engine a few times. re-install coil wire and attempt to start.) Note: this assumes that the pump is in good working order.

NEXT: test the pump for output (you'll need a second person for this). get a glass jar and a length of fuel line. remove pump to carb line and install length of hose. place other end of hose in jar. remove coil wire and have friend crank engine. fuel should pump into jar easily. then gently pinch hose and crank again. fuel should spurt out with some force. if one or neither of those two conditions occur, replace fuel pump.




then its on to spark: if it's not strong enough the car won't idle. purchace a spark tester from your local McAuto Parts and follow the directions. you're testing the coil output as well as system integrity (good cap, rotor, wires?)

Ok. heres my plan.

spray carb cleaner on lines and check for any idle spikes.

if this doesnt work then i will try your jar method tho check the pump,( hope its not, because i cant afford one for another 2 weeks)


updates tomorrow.

Spark tester? have to look around locally, we dont have a mcauto here in hawaii.

[FestYboy]

McAuto parts store is any generic parts place like Advance, Autozone, O'Reilyes etc.

the carb cleaner won't show if your coil is bad, just your wires, and not that well either. you need a spark tester, period, they're like $5-10 and easy to use.

[boostmaster]

Have you checked your plugs? Just curious. Might not waste time testing these componenets and just replace them. It's not too expensive and probably due to be replaced (ie: spark plugs $5bux?-cheap and easy to do; Plug wires, $20; cap and rotor $not sure yet haven't priced)

I'm not generally one to just throw money at a car to fix it. It has been my experience that unless I have an additional car or lots of time to tinker, running around to various parts stores looking for "testers" etc., will generally run about the same as just replacing the part I was hopuing to avoid replacing. In your scenario these parts are cheap. If they don't fix the problem, then look at the fuel pump. If it turns out to be the fuel pump afte all of this, you will at least be able to rest assured that all of the important stuff under the hood is new...

BTW, since this is not a FI car I am under the impression that there is no IAC (I could be mistaken as I am not a mechanic) but my truck recently had this same issue and when I replaced the plugs I discovered the electrodes on 2 of them were gone! Of course it didn't help that I was having an ignition issue and a IAC issue. But I digress...

Just my 2 cents, change the plugs, wires, cap and rotor. It'll probably cost way less than $100 and take less than an hour to install. Much less time and money spent than driving around the island to find misc. items...

[Pu241]

ok, first, Pu241: it's a carbed engine, the pump is AFTER the filter. there will be no pressure at the filter.

Really. I have never had a carb Festiva, but that is the first time I have ever heard that. Every car I've owned (I'm old) had the filter after the pump. Usually the pump doesn't like to pull fuel through a filter. It would much rather push it through.

rbrown stated better than I, and I'm with him on the filter/pump and the "old" part. The only time I've seen a pump after the filter has been in my diesel Rabbit!

That detail aside, collegeboi, Festyboy's advise is generally good!

Boostmaster, point is well taken about running around for testers etc., but replacing a part that doesn't need replacing is also a waste.
Example: I don't think the wires are the culprit in this case, doesn't mean there might not be benefit to changing them, but my experience is that when they're bad, starting is more an issue than idling or running at rpm!
Also as it appears collegeboi is, at the moment, strapped for cash.
Replacing spark plugs that don't need it, is also somewhat wasteful.
He still should pull them and re-gap them if needed or replace if bad!
Your personal labor is cheap at this point relative to buying parts!

[boostmaster]

Pu241: I agree completely. I'd prefer to not change parts that don't need it especially if not sure (I hate wasting money). However, while labor is cheap, time and gas are not. Collegeboi is obviously a starving student thus he probably does not have the luxury of time (since study time is always at a premium), nor the resources to keep borrowing a car or bumming rides and most likely pitching in for gas which is overpriced these days. Hence my suggestion for replacing parts was tempered with an eye toward time and money conservation. Inevitably, these parts will need replacement and when it's all said and done, he can replace these items for relatively cheap and cross them out of the eqation or he can continue to pay for fuel to run around trying to find other solutions, also wasting valuabel time and possibly still need to replace these items.

I suppose if he can do the various checks and tests without spending any additional time or money then it's a good idea. Of course I'd refer to never spend money when I don't have to but sometimes spending a little bit now is cheaper than spending a lot more later.

Again, it's just my two cents and what has worked for me in the past.

[rbrown]

Sparkplugs do not cause a stall/die situation. Run bad and rough yes.

You give it gas (with the pedal) and it dies. It's not spark. Especially in a carb car.

[jglutz]

Sparkplugs do not cause a stall/die situation. Run bad and rough yes.

You give it gas (with the pedal) and it dies. It's not spark. Especially in a carb car.

Busted plugs will...when the insulator is cracked on the external part of the engine and the ignition wire boot does not contain the spark.


Anyway.....I would not give up on a vacuum leak....hose or gasket....maybe time for a propane torch test.

[FestYboy]

Pu241: yeah, i don't know why it is, but the pump is after the filter :shrugs:

i'm all about slapping new plugs in so that there's no question abou them, but what about the rest of the system? you must be able to test your coil and there's only one way to do that: spark tester. the best part about that tester, IT'S CHEAP!! a faulty coil can still let the engine idle, but as soon as there's a load present, the coil can't provide enough voltage/current to produce a spark. remember, that coil is 20 years old!

[collegeboi]

Update, its 942 here and getting ready to check the car.
I will check spark plug for corrosion but i replaced them 3 thousand miles ago.
Heard about the torch light test but dont have a torchlight.

Would a basic lighter work????

[collegeboi]

Nvm. mom does not like the torch idea so i will try carb cleaner but isnt that flammable>

[collegeboi]

Mods: lmk if i am posting to much.

Update: washed car, sprayed carb cleaner on very hose i could see including fuel lined from filter to pumpand no idle changes. (just sprayed whole engine bay.) after should i wash off cleaner??

So not a vacuum leak?

Basically now after spending 15 on the cleaner and the filter, have little cash.

next will be spark tester, im guessing.

Mom didnt want to do the glass jar method mentioned earlier but when i did change fuel filter there was fuel coming from both tubes so im guessing the fuel pumps.

[collegeboi]

We may have gotten closer

OK this could be getting very close.

Spraying carb cleaner no idle changes but when i went in the house, my dad justturned it on and drove it off down the road and back with very very rough idle.

He saying its a vac leak but i dont know exactly what to replace because i did not notice an idle change.

Is a vac leak only black hoses??
If so i would like to replace every hose possible. any ideas???

[collegeboi]

Also spraying carb cleaner while engine on in the carb there was a whistling/ misty sound

Im sure thats not normal, is that also a sign of a vac leak.

[FestYboy]

whoa whoa whoa!!!!! STOP.

don't replace untill you know what's causing the symtom.

if you sprayed cleaner and there's no change, there's no leak, no further testing needed. usually if you have a vac leak, you'll have a higher than normal idle but it typicaly won't be rough.

start by removing and inspecting your plugs. after cleaning and re-installing them (if they are good) then remove and inspect the cap and rotor. look for carbon tracing and corrosion. if you see carbon trails, replace the cap. if everything still looks good after inspecting them, then GET THE SPARK TESTER!!! the coil is the next piece in line and the tester is the only way check it.

[Handyman]

Can you test a coil with a multi-meter? I don't have my Haynes handy but I thought I read something about checking resistance across poles to test.