Nice tidbit for those with barely any heat

[Zcallicutt7]

OEM should be 195°F

[TorqueEffect]

I don't know about these two-stage thermostats, I find when I installed mine the needle on the gauge doesn't go anywhere near as high, and take just as long, if not longer to move off C.

Maybe it is just my gauge acting wonky, because the heater does start to feel decently warm after about few minutes of driving, maybe it was just colder than it was before I changed out the single stage one that was in there.

You know what, I shouldn't complain, I mean It runs good, I am getting good gas mileage.
If my gauge is anything to go by (last time my needle was exactly on half a tank and I filled it up, it was exactly 5 gallons.) I have done 100miles on a tad less than a quarter of a tank which works out to at least 40mpg.

I guess I am still spoiled by the fact other cars warm up in a matter of minutes to really toasty temps.

[bravekozak]

alejandro, if you live in a tropical country you might want to do what I did, since
I only drive in the summer. Install a single stage 150°F Mazda thermostat, and disconnect your heater core hoses. That way, you will not have any hot coolant flowing into your blower assembly. This is a bonus if you have A/C, because it will be even colder. Your engine will run cooler. Your hoses will last longer. It will be cooler inside your passenger compartment. Good luck.

[TorqueEffect]

Currently making a cardboard air-dam for the grill, this should prevent allot of air from getting into the engine bay, but will leave the air intake on the bumper open so air can still pass through the bottom of the radiator. Just waiting for the paint to dry, painted the cardboard black, just so it doesn't look as much like a piece of cardboard wedged in there. But it will be held in place between the grill, and the grill mounts.

[Aaronbrook37]

Currently making a cardboard air-dam for the grill, this should prevent allot of air from getting into the engine bay, but will leave the air intake on the bumper open so air can still pass through the bottom of the radiator. Just waiting for the paint to dry, painted the cardboard black, just so it doesn't look as much like a piece of cardboard wedged in there. But it will be held in place between the grill, and the grill mounts.

Good solution. I was going to do this, but ended up slipping an intercooler in there instead!

[TorqueEffect]

Heh, nice.

I always thought it was a bit unsightly to look at the front of the car, and easily see the o2 Sensor with the heat-shield, and manifold just sitting there. Just makes it look like something is missing.

[TorqueEffect]

Welp, air dam didn't help heat it up any quicker.

For some reason, even when the thermostat is closed, the radiator still cools the engine. It baffles me.

[bravekozak]

Torque are your heater hoses hot? Feel all of the hoses.
Upper rad hose
Lower rad hose
Little itty bitty baby bypass hosey.
Intake to heater core hose
Heater core out house

[rmoltis]

It's all about thermal efficiency.
The car is most efficient at 195 degree operating temperature.
When its at 195 less combustion energy is absorbed as heat on the cylinder walls since the cooling system is saturated. which is then used as energy to propel the piston. So it extracts most power out of the fuel.

And when its colder outside more energy is absorbed as heat on the cylinder walls removing energy from the force propelling the piston. Which in turn extracts less power from the fuel for use as force to propel the piston.

So the bottom line is the size of our engines don't produce enough thermal energy to maintain peak temperature and saturate the cooling system with heat on cold days. The stock temperature gauge reads at the cold mark around 100 degrees.

I have a 195 degree thermostat.
On days around 10-20 degrees while driving with the air rushing over the radiator my car sits at a steady 128 degrees. Which on the stock temp gauge is about 1cm above the cold mark.

Around days with 40-60 degree weather while moving it sits around 135-160 degrees. Which is about 1/3 from the cold mark on the stock gauge.


I think it may even be because of our cooling system being big for the vehicle. But on hot days I'm sure its just enough to keep everything running well. Usually running at 186-200 degrees steady cracking the thermostat at 200 bringing it to 195. Which is halfway exactly on the stock gauge.

So basically the weather dictates your running temp even with a well maintained cooling system like mine.

[rmoltis]

I ran out of time to edit the above thread. This info is all from my aspire which is the same engine and cooling system. Only difference would be the stock temperature gauge.

[bravekozak]

Welp, air dam didn't help heat it up any quicker.

For some reason, even when the thermostat is closed, the radiator still cools the engine. It baffles me.

This cannot happen. The rad does not come into play until the thermostat opens. It is a closed loop with coolant pushed up through the block into the intake and through the heater core. It then flows back to the front of the engine through a tube under the exhaust manifold, completing the loop.

Have you had the pressure in your cooling system checked?
The cap pressure should hold between 11 and 15 psi per 89 Festiva shop manual.

Stant pressure tester instruction manual.

[TorqueEffect]

Torque are your heater hoses hot? Feel all of the hoses.
Upper rad hose
Lower rad hose
Little itty bitty baby bypass hosey.
Intake to heater core hose
Heater core out house

Yep, just did after a short drive, all hoses are warm except the lower radiator one.

It's all about thermal efficiency.
The car is most efficient at 195 degree operating temperature.
When its at 195 less combustion energy is absorbed as heat on the cylinder walls since the cooling system is saturated. which is then used as energy to propel the piston. So it extracts most power out of the fuel.

And when its colder outside more energy is absorbed as heat on the cylinder walls removing energy from the force propelling the piston. Which in turn extracts less power from the fuel for use as force to propel the piston.

So the bottom line is the size of our engines don't produce enough thermal energy to maintain peak temperature and saturate the cooling system with heat on cold days. The stock temperature gauge reads at the cold mark around 100 degrees.

I have a 195 degree thermostat.
On days around 10-20 degrees while driving with the air rushing over the radiator my car sits at a steady 128 degrees. Which on the stock temp gauge is about 1cm above the cold mark.

Around days with 40-60 degree weather while moving it sits around 135-160 degrees. Which is about 1/3 from the cold mark on the stock gauge.


I think it may even be because of our cooling system being big for the vehicle. But on hot days I'm sure its just enough to keep everything running well. Usually running at 186-200 degrees steady cracking the thermostat at 200 bringing it to 195. Which is halfway exactly on the stock gauge.

So basically the weather dictates your running temp even with a well maintained cooling system like mine.

Yeah, your system seems to act like mine. Though I can't say for sure yet on the warmer temps, but in cold weather with the radiator unblocked, the highest it goes is just beyond the cold mark. With it blocked, I can get the needle on the gauge to read almost halfway, which is probably when the main valve on the stat opens.

I think the problem might be with the two-stage thermostats, is the small valve opens up too soon, so it opens just beyond the cold mark on the gauge causing it to stable out and not get any warmer.
Because before I installed the Murray two-stage 323 stat, there was a single stage that was in there, it still took a while to warm up but the needle on the gauge would eventually reach just under the middle. (195)
This is without anything blocking the radiator.

This cannot happen. The rad does not come into play until the thermostat opens. It is a closed loop with coolant pushed up through the block into the intake and through the heater core. It then flows back to the front of the engine through a tube under the exhaust manifold, completing the loop.

Have you had the pressure in your cooling system checked?
The cap pressure should hold between 11 and 15 psi per 89 Festiva shop manual.

Stant pressure tester instruction manual.

No I haven't pressure tested my cooling system. But I can tell you there is a coolant leak on the block, on the front side (side facing the front of the car.) Near the water pump.
There is what looks like a circular plug looking thing recessed into the block, about an inch in size if not a little bigger, I know that is what is leaking because the cascade coolant flush I did, the soap dried up leaving the white residue on that exact spot from where it leaked, if it is indeed a plug it doesn't look like it is all the way in, possibly causing the leak, but I dare not touch it for fear I may make the leak worse.

[rmoltis]

to say the radiator doesn't work until the Thermostat opens would mean air doesn't flow over the radiator until the thermostat opens.
That tiny bleeder hole in my thermostat allows the water to slowly move through the system while increasing the pressure in The block before itself due to the water pump pressing the water up against it.

Because my thermostat at 195 degrees opens at 200 and almost everyday it never reaches that temperature for example on a cold day I let it warm up to 140 on say a 20 degree day. And even though its not at full operating temp to pop the thermostat as soon as I get moving the temp drops back to 128 steady which means the cold air chills the coolant in the radiator.

So as It slowly circulates through the air bleeder hole into the radiator. the chilled coolant makes its way back into the block preventing it from heating completely. If you draw a diagram of the water flow on paper and each point the water flows through and what the temp is doing you'll come to the same conclusion. My scanguage II gives me real time readings of what my car is doing and I can watch the temp drop and rise as I'm driving.

I've been wondering if I raised the compression on my b3 if it would help sustain higher temps and faster warm-up.

[bravekozak]

I believed you described a freeze plug. If you knew it was leaking, you should have fixed it before you filled it up again. Buy a frost plug, drain the block. get a hammer and a screwdriver. Tap on the edge of the plug to turn it. Grab it with pliers and yank it out. Or, pop it out with a small prybar. clean the side of the freeze plug hole. Put an ultra thin dab of silicone around the new plug fit it into the hole and use a block of wood to knock it straight into place. It must be straight in so that it doesn't deform and leak again. Good luck.

rmoltis, based on what you described, the two stage thermostat should be worse for heat in the winter than a single stage, because the sub valve will open at a lower temperature. Also, the thermostat should close as the temperature drops. Perhaps it isn't closing properly?
Everything that has been discussed points to the thermostat not operating correctly. It should be taken out and tested while suspended in a water bath with a thermometer.

Read the part about thermostat failure. The great thing about having a two stage thermostat is that you have double the chance of something going wrong. Guess what happens if the sub valve doesn't close.

"To check the thermostat, remove the radiator cap and start the engine while it is cold. Looking inside the radiator, you should see no movement of coolant. If you see movement, the thermostat is stuck open."

[bravekozak]

I don't race. But the day I do, I will definitely not buy a $96 thermostat.


I wanted to add that the first thing that heats up when the thermostat is closed is the itsty bitsy bypass hose. because it is always open. The remainder of the pressure circutates out to the heater core.

Other Mazda car owners have the same problem. Yet nobody can explain what is the exact purpose of having a dual stage thermostat. The thermostat is not controlled by a digital valve. As far as I can surmise, the redundancy is only there to maintain a narrower operating temperature range. This is achieved by not having as much of a lag in opening and closing, as well as doing it over a wider temperature range.