Twin charged bp

[bhearts]

Why not bringing in some new technology to old engines? Ok, itīs experimental area, but some guys over here running Garrett GT25 VNT Diesel or Porsche 911 petrol VNT turbochargers on Renault R5 GT Turbo cars with great sucess.

http://www.technologie-entwicklung.de/vtg-sequenz.gif

They are designed for 850 - 900 °C, but there is always a safety margin built-in. I can only imagine how a B6T or BP (aftermarket rods) with some good cam and fuel-tuning pulls on the bottom end with good top end power. You need to control it via vacuum and / or with electronics, but I donīt see a big problem in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDzDihmGvaU

It's very different. I'm going to wait for someone more experienced to chime in.

[sketchman]

Is it variable geometry? Is that what the outer ring of blades is for?

[Uhuzit]

Yes, roughly like a variable exhaust A/R plus boost control. That in combination with VVT...

[Advancedynamix]

Variable vane turbines are probably going to be the next big thing. Right now they are still a little finicky and pricey, but they are getting better. I'm glad to see the OEMs using them on gasoline engines now. Only a matter of time until they flood the aftermarket. I'd like to see a ceramic bb twin scroll VNT line of universal turbochargers.

[SiliconSoul]

I remember Dodge playing with these in the K-cars... They are really cool if they can be reliable...

[jason_]

Why not bringing in some new technology to old engines? Ok, itīs experimental area, but some guys over here running Garrett GT25 VNT Diesel or Porsche 911 petrol VNT turbochargers on Renault R5 GT Turbo cars with great sucess.

http://www.technologie-entwicklung.de/vtg-sequenz.gif

They are designed for 850 - 900 °C, but there is always a safety margin built-in. I can only imagine how a B6T or BP (aftermarket rods) with some good cam and fuel-tuning pulls on the bottom end with good top end power. You need to control it via vacuum and / or with electronics, but I donīt see a big problem in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDzDihmGvaU

Mines controlled with vacuum electronically with sensor feedback.

I'd rather use traditional waste gate but idea with variable was to remove dumping to atmosphere and able to cut flow so it spools faster.

Like putting cardboard in front of a box fan
No air makes it turn easier and faster with no load.

[dueces]

So I'm going to add my 1 cent to this, because I really don't have two....

To the OP: I think you should stick with your plan as you started. If anything, you can learn tons from it and maybe move on to something different like compound turbo's.

Most people are reiterating about how you can have more power with just a turbo, but that is not the point at all. I was the first person to twincharge a Ford probe, and I heard all of the same doubts, and while you will most likely make more peak power with a perfect size turbo, you will never match the area under the curve that a twincharge setup can offer.

Here is how I made mine. First, I supercharged my 2.5L KL motor. I put the M62 Eaton where the AC used to be. This is fine, if you don't mind a constant blow off due to the roots blower pushing on the throttle at idle and cruise. Then I turboed my car. I took the blower off and went cheap ebay t3/t4. So after running lower 12's, I started seeing things on twincharging. So, since my piping ran right by where the blower used to be, I just threw my M62 back in place and made an intake box/tube for it to handle the extra boost from the turbo.

Adding the blower back in was AMAZING! The blower was pushing 5-6psi, and the turbo did the rest until the intake mani seen 14 psi. Full boost was 2000 rpm, and it held all the way to redline. No as far as peak numbers, I think it was a wash. There is tons of theory that goes with this all, some of it being that if you push the sc with the turbo, you can actually take away parasitic loss due to the turbo helping to turn the rotors. I DID NOT bypass the blower. My car was megasquirted, and I hardly had to change the tune, just the upper boost/lower rpm area of the map needed adjusted.

My intake temps at the end of the track did go up about 15-20 degrees, but I was running e85 and never had an issue. It was intercooled (stock evo intercooler) after the sc.

I think you will be more than happy with the results of a little twincharging. I would slow down the sc to only push a third of the boost you plan to run, or there about, and with the sc pulling on the compressor wheel, it will spool like a cat on fire....

There are many ways to calculate the proper sc and tc, but in the end, the efficiency difference is not worth buying top of the line parts. It's not like someone else is going to come to you and say their twincharged festy is better than yours!!!

Another thing. Back to all this talk about the m90 being a "heater", please remember 15psi on a 3.8L motor is a huge amount of air compared to 15psi on a 1.8 or 1.6. I do think you would be better off with a m62 or m45 though, but use what ya got!!!

John

[dueces]

So I'm going to add my 1 cent to this, because I really don't have two....

To the OP: I think you should stick with your plan as you started. If anything, you can learn tons from it and maybe move on to something different like compound turbo's.

Most people are reiterating about how you can have more power with just a turbo, but that is not the point at all. I was the first person to twincharge a Ford probe, and I heard all of the same doubts, and while you will most likely make more peak power with a perfect size turbo, you will never match the area under the curve that a twincharge setup can offer.

Here is how I made mine. First, I supercharged my 2.5L KL motor. I put the M62 Eaton where the AC used to be. This is fine, if you don't mind a constant blow off due to the roots blower pushing on the throttle at idle and cruise. Then I turboed my car. I took the blower off and went cheap ebay t3/t4. So after running lower 12's, I started seeing things on twincharging. So, since my piping ran right by where the blower used to be, I just threw my M62 back in place and made an intake box/tube for it to handle the extra boost from the turbo.

Adding the blower back in was AMAZING! The blower was pushing 5-6psi, and the turbo did the rest until the intake mani seen 14 psi. Full boost was 2000 rpm, and it held all the way to redline. No as far as peak numbers, I think it was a wash. There is tons of theory that goes with this all, some of it being that if you push the sc with the turbo, you can actually take away parasitic loss due to the turbo helping to turn the rotors. I DID NOT bypass the blower. My car was megasquirted, and I hardly had to change the tune, just the upper boost/lower rpm area of the map needed adjusted.

My intake temps at the end of the track did go up about 15-20 degrees, but I was running e85 and never had an issue. It was intercooled (stock evo intercooler) after the sc.

I think you will be more than happy with the results of a little twincharging. I would slow down the sc to only push a third of the boost you plan to run, or there about, and with the sc pulling on the compressor wheel, it will spool like a cat on fire....

There are many ways to calculate the proper sc and tc, but in the end, the efficiency difference is not worth buying top of the line parts. It's not like someone else is going to come to you and say their twincharged festy is better than yours!!!

Another thing. Back to all this talk about the m90 being a "heater", please remember 15psi on a 3.8L motor is a huge amount of air compared to 15psi on a 1.8 or 1.6. I do think you would be better off with a m62 or m45 though, but use what ya got!!!

John

[bhearts]

So I'm going to add my 1 cent to this, because I really don't have two....

To the OP: I think you should stick with your plan as you started. If anything, you can learn tons from it and maybe move on to something different like compound turbo's.

Most people are reiterating about how you can have more power with just a turbo, but that is not the point at all. I was the first person to twincharge a Ford probe, and I heard all of the same doubts, and while you will most likely make more peak power with a perfect size turbo, you will never match the area under the curve that a twincharge setup can offer.

Here is how I made mine. First, I supercharged my 2.5L KL motor. I put the M62 Eaton where the AC used to be. This is fine, if you don't mind a constant blow off due to the roots blower pushing on the throttle at idle and cruise. Then I turboed my car. I took the blower off and went cheap ebay t3/t4. So after running lower 12's, I started seeing things on twincharging. So, since my piping ran right by where the blower used to be, I just threw my M62 back in place and made an intake box/tube for it to handle the extra boost from the turbo.

Adding the blower back in was AMAZING! The blower was pushing 5-6psi, and the turbo did the rest until the intake mani seen 14 psi. Full boost was 2000 rpm, and it held all the way to redline. No as far as peak numbers, I think it was a wash. There is tons of theory that goes with this all, some of it being that if you push the sc with the turbo, you can actually take away parasitic loss due to the turbo helping to turn the rotors. I DID NOT bypass the blower. My car was megasquirted, and I hardly had to change the tune, just the upper boost/lower rpm area of the map needed adjusted.

My intake temps at the end of the track did go up about 15-20 degrees, but I was running e85 and never had an issue. It was intercooled (stock evo intercooler) after the sc.

I think you will be more than happy with the results of a little twincharging. I would slow down the sc to only push a third of the boost you plan to run, or there about, and with the sc pulling on the compressor wheel, it will spool like a cat on fire....

There are many ways to calculate the proper sc and tc, but in the end, the efficiency difference is not worth buying top of the line parts. It's not like someone else is going to come to you and say their twincharged festy is better than yours!!!

Another thing. Back to all this talk about the m90 being a "heater", please remember 15psi on a 3.8L motor is a huge amount of air compared to 15psi on a 1.8 or 1.6. I do think you would be better off with a m62 or m45 though, but use what ya got!!!

John

I appreciate it man. I'm still a ways off of getting that build going, I have some crazy ideas for it. I may do some test fitting with that supercharger to see if it can even fit anywhere.

[bhearts]

So I'm going to add my 1 cent to this, because I really don't have two....

To the OP: I think you should stick with your plan as you started. If anything, you can learn tons from it and maybe move on to something different like compound turbo's.

Most people are reiterating about how you can have more power with just a turbo, but that is not the point at all. I was the first person to twincharge a Ford probe, and I heard all of the same doubts, and while you will most likely make more peak power with a perfect size turbo, you will never match the area under the curve that a twincharge setup can offer.

Here is how I made mine. First, I supercharged my 2.5L KL motor. I put the M62 Eaton where the AC used to be. This is fine, if you don't mind a constant blow off due to the roots blower pushing on the throttle at idle and cruise. Then I turboed my car. I took the blower off and went cheap ebay t3/t4. So after running lower 12's, I started seeing things on twincharging. So, since my piping ran right by where the blower used to be, I just threw my M62 back in place and made an intake box/tube for it to handle the extra boost from the turbo.

Adding the blower back in was AMAZING! The blower was pushing 5-6psi, and the turbo did the rest until the intake mani seen 14 psi. Full boost was 2000 rpm, and it held all the way to redline. No as far as peak numbers, I think it was a wash. There is tons of theory that goes with this all, some of it being that if you push the sc with the turbo, you can actually take away parasitic loss due to the turbo helping to turn the rotors. I DID NOT bypass the blower. My car was megasquirted, and I hardly had to change the tune, just the upper boost/lower rpm area of the map needed adjusted.

My intake temps at the end of the track did go up about 15-20 degrees, but I was running e85 and never had an issue. It was intercooled (stock evo intercooler) after the sc.

I think you will be more than happy with the results of a little twincharging. I would slow down the sc to only push a third of the boost you plan to run, or there about, and with the sc pulling on the compressor wheel, it will spool like a cat on fire....

There are many ways to calculate the proper sc and tc, but in the end, the efficiency difference is not worth buying top of the line parts. It's not like someone else is going to come to you and say their twincharged festy is better than yours!!!

Another thing. Back to all this talk about the m90 being a "heater", please remember 15psi on a 3.8L motor is a huge amount of air compared to 15psi on a 1.8 or 1.6. I do think you would be better off with a m62 or m45 though, but use what ya got!!!

John

I'm getting closer though. Just need to get to work on my business so I can afford tons of fancy engine goodies.

[dueces]

Ha ha, yeah cars take some serious financing that's for sure. Are all M90's long snouted? You can get the m62 with a short snout and even with a clutched pulley (like AC), they came on c230 kompressors that way.

[bhearts]

Ha ha, yeah cars take some serious financing that's for sure. Are all M90's long snouted? You can get the m62 with a short snout and even with a clutched pulley (like AC), they came on c230 kompressors that way.

How'd your quarter mile times compare?

[dueces]

Quarter mile times were probably about the same, but getting a good 60' is a lot easier with the low end grunt of the blower, I normally launched around 2500-3000 on drag radials and it just seemed more consistent. I ran 11.94 twincharged, but that was with the clutch slipping from a little after the 1/8th. That was with slicks, on drag radials it trapped 123mph, which should have been closer to 11.40's if the clutch didn't give

[bhearts]

So you blew through your sc, no bypass. Sc made roughly 7 psi, turbo brought you to 15?

[bhearts]

[QUOTE=bhearts;680022]So you blew through your sc, no bypass, I wonder what would happen if you kept the sc putting out 7psi, and had the turbo boost the total up to 20, I'd think it would have flow issues with that much difference in pressure.