My n/a super b3 build

[Prafeston]

It would be nice to know what the cost is on a complete overhaul like this...

[Bert]

it's way cool to see what the little b3 is capable of... And still be reliable.
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....And still be reliable. Well said. Performance numbers are going to mean a lot less to me than 'DD run time'. A salvage yards' $250 sale of a housewife's 16 valve B8, that ought to run day and night for years with 105 hp and 5500rpm, will be hard to beat even with a tricked-out B3 over that same period of time. Used to be there were race classes of 1000cc or less, 1000 to 1300 etc, and it was super advantageous to remain in a lower category.
But I admire your gumption and if this all-encompassing set of mods can really liven-up original motors then 'good for you', and good for us.

[navdoc101]

Can't wait to see the finished product! Wish I had the money to do this. Go!!! banana time

[drumnerd33]

Re: My n/a super b3 build

Thank you and I agree. Like I said before I like that there is a ton of info on this site for swaps but it's way cool to see what the little b3 is capable of... And still be reliable, so this will be a fun build... Even with the naysayers...

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[Huli]

Re: My n/a super b3 build

I just respect anyone with the passion to mod something they love!

93 Festiva in mod status
94 Jeep only thing stock is the tub.

[drumnerd33]

Re: My n/a super b3 build

That's a misconception... On a stock motor that you put a turbo on it you will get only a certain amount of gain because of the restriction of air in the head. If you have a head that will flow a lot more air it allows that smaller amount of boost to do a lot more... A lot of people think why build the head to flow better if you are going to run a turbo, we'll that's because the turbo can only push so much air through a small hole... Make that hole larger and now you are compressing and moving a lot of air which= more hp. That's how the over 1000 hp cars do it... They don't just turn the boost up and get those numbers, they have to build the motor to move more air in and out

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[TominMO]

well i can tell you right now that matt did this too his except he did not do the roller rockers (which is only minimal help but every bit counts on these little motors) and he had a lower end with 175000 miles. his dyno number was 112 hp @ the wheels. then he ran 8psi of boost on mild tune with pump gas and ran 266 @ the wheels....

From what little I know about all this, these numbers sound odd. I might believe 112 at the crank, depending on what dyno was used....but 266 sounds like a misprint. More like 166. To double the non-boosted HP, don't you need 15 lbs of boost? And that would give a number of 224, not 266.

Not dissing Matt, in fact I'm thinking of having him do some work for me too.

[drumnerd33]

ok here is the stock specs for the bp
The 1,839 cc or 1.8 BP is a DOHC (dual-overhead camshaft) variant of the B8, featuring a 83 mm bore and 85 mm stroke and four valves per cylinder. This engine was called 'BP-ZE by Mazda engineers' and featured a forged crankshaft, piston oil squirters, a structural aluminum oil pan with cooling fins, a 7,000 rpm redline, and Variable Intertia Charging System VICS which is activated by a control solenoid at high rpm to increase horsepower in the upper rev range. The engine in base form on 91RON fuel produces 96 kW at 6,000 rpm and 165 Nm at 4,000 rpm. The engine is a favourite for both N/A and turbo motoring enthusiasts for its robust design, materials and construction. This particular variant can be found in the following vehicles:

so 96 kw converts to 128 hp.... and that is at the crank.

This link is to a drag times slip for a mazda protege with bp with modified intake and exhaust and was put on a dynohttp://www.dragtimes.com/Mazda-Prote...slip-9136.html

[drumnerd33]

Re: My n/a super b3 build

Hey guys there will always be people with there own opinions, and that's good we should all have and express our own opinions, but at the same time let's not knock each other for what they are doing.... I think it's great what some of you guys have done with the motor swaps and there is to of info on this site just for that. That being said there is very little info on what the b3 is capable of, and Matt dickmeyer (and a few others) have decided to go that route and see, also Matt is not just another guy working on a festiva having fun... He is a champion race engine builder, so you can't really say anything that he doesn't already know, this is what he does for a living he takes motors and pushes them to what they will handle.

Store answer your question on reliability... That easy to answer, my engine with be just as if not more reliable then in stock form. For anybody who rebuilds motors knows when you do a rebuild you make everything brand new. All I have done is go .40 over and make my head flows a crap ton of air and get it into the motor quick and out quick.... Thats it. So yes my motor will last???? Over 200,000 miles

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[rmoltis]

Not to mention everything remains stock. Everything will bolt up. All the sensors all the gaskets etc. He will have an easy time with maintenance and replacement parts. Axles will bolt up. Gearing from the transmission will still match. Clutch will still hold etc. And just because everyone else goes the easy route and buys a used engine with all the wear and tear and they drop it in. Then pay all the extra dough to buy sensors and fabricate harnesses motor mounts welding up exhausts. And if anyone actually wanted to build their engine from the ground up after that point it would cost the cost of acquiring the engine as well as putting all the same effort into the new platform. Probably would even cost more because of parts requiring custom work. Then you'd have to spring for a larger transmission so it would be reliable and spread the power out through the band's effectively with new axles etc.
All he has to do is build his motor and drop it back in. When you step back and look at the bigger picture using his stock engine is a great thing and its convenient. Not to mention anything related to state inspections or emissions or such they wouldnt even know anything was different.

And the eye of ra guy went turbo with the b3 if I remember correctly whereas this guy is going n/a which is a whole nother ball game. I say go for it your right in the sense the engines are smaller and weigh less. Another advantage is that since these engines are so small they have less rotating mass which means it will be able to rise through the rpms very quickly. That extra acceleration from less rotating mass is something that won't show up on the dyno but hell feel in his pants. It will be a high strung little beast. People always like to tell you your ideas are wrong or that there is a better way when they haven't tried the option for themselves. They really don't know what the outcome would even be and they are quick to tell you it wouldnt be worth it. But if you enjoy it plan it out and do it and you'll be able to prove to them what is possible when you take action instead of guessing what it may be like.

[TheresGabe]

And when I blew the motor in my B6T that used to eat V8's for breakfast? I found another B6T for $400... (Though you might want to check your weight issues. Saying a B6 is "much heavier than a B3" or even a BP, is just not true. http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=338950)
What happens when your built B3 has an issue? I am NOT trying to disrespect in any way, but has the longevity of any of the things you have been done been tested? I've put 10k miles in the last 6 months on my stock B3. Is your modded B3 going to be up to that? It just seems like you are trying to build a better mousetrap... I'll be quiet now.

[drumnerd33]

Re: My n/a super b3 build

Good example would be when you blow down the drag and have an amazing 1/4 Mike time and on the way back peoe ask you what do you have in that thing?... And then you reply its just the stock motor a 1.3...

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[drumnerd33]

Re: My n/a super b3 build

Well there is a few reason for doing it this way. First of all its fun and when I beat somebody with a larger motor it puts a smile on my face. Second, this motor is way lighter then those other motors and weight is one of the major advantages with our little cars... We want to keep them light not make them heavier. Third, n you go buy a junk yard motor that has ? How many miles and what kind of abuse.... How long do you really think that motor will last?

Now as far as hp with those stock motors you are saying that they have more hp then I'm gonna have that's not really true. The hp ratings on those motors that you guys have are stock ratings and that is to the crank... Not to the wheels. I will say this though the larger motors do have more potential when built but you are going to spend a lot of money also. And I'm not really spending that much. My buddy built a 24r for his Toyota rock crawler and spent almost as much as I am and he bought a head that was only mildly built... I have a full custom race built head. On other motors you would end up spending way more then I have.

Matt dickmeyer is offering amazing products that will produce amazing numbers for a really good price being that it's all built by hand by him... You can't ask for a better price.

Also he produced 266 hp to the wheels on 8 psi of boost... Let's see your stock bp do that.
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[Prafeston]

Has this not been hammered away at enough on this site? I feel like this has come up in like 3 different threads..

Sure you can go the easy cheap way...and most of us probably would. But some people like to be different. Does it really need to be hashed out again? Some people like coffee others like tea...some people don't like either. Just enjoy what you see in here!

[TheresGabe]

but... but... but... I realize how cool this is. I realize it's awesome to unleash the potential of the mighty B3... BUT You are doing all of this work, which I'm assuming is NOT cheap to reach the numbers that a BP can hit stock? That a B6T can hit with a little tuning? It's my remembering all the promises that "Eye_of_Ra93" had that is giving me a thought process that leads me to think "Why take the long, expensive way, when others have already gotten these numbers for less work and cost?"