I'm in BIG Trouble - HELP!

[Zanzer]

http://hand-tools.hardwarestore.com/...ol-297812.aspx

I have one of these and IMO no toolbox should be without one. They work great for so many things....even when I'm feeling lazy and don't feel like bending over to pick something up LOL :mrgreen:

Seriously though, they have made life easier in many situations :thumbup:

[crazyrog17]

What about a long pin that's bent into a small hook at the end? Put it into the center hole of the tubing and press into it to get a firm grip before you pull it out.

Less of a chance of disturbing the tube than larger pliers or inaccurate three pronged grabbing tools.


Another thought... You said it was shrink tubing? What about inserting a rod or stick into the tube a couple of inches and sending heat at it. It will shrink around the rod and you can pull it out in one piece. If the twist tie falls down the heat shrink tube, then it will get caught on the larger part of the tube inside the combustion chamber that wasn't shrunk yet.

[WmWatt]

Drip in hot wax and let it harden. I shouldn't think wax would damage the cylinder. If you're worried about it, after the foreign material has been extracted pour oil in and float any wax out. Could work. I'd be sure to test in on the workbench first.

[boydg1]

.... Now that you have all these suggestions, when are you going to get it out?

.

[GenevaDirt]

Do you have any friends that smoke pot? If so they probably have a pair of Hemostats. Would not have to spend $20.00. But it is a no brainer ,,,, hemo's and move on. Or if you have a small set of needle nose pliers .... get er done!

[Larry Hampton]

I'm thinking, not certain enough, Larry. Once you have a grasp of it with some mechanical device, you can be sure that it will hold as you pull it out. The holding power of grease is less certain. Plus, in order to get it to hold, you have to initially push the tube in the feared direction of the combustion chamber. Not without merit, but probably won't make the cut. My sincere thanks, nevertheless.

Axle grease sticks to EVERYTHING!!

Have you thought about asking someone what the stroke on a 1.3 is? You said the tube was 3"-4" long, I'm betting you may be at BDC already, in which case it won't fall anymore.

I like the idea of a wire down inside the tube, in case it does fall it would keep from falling away from the hole. Then you could slide something down the wire and into the heat shrink (why didnt you shrink onto the pouring device?) then use a propane torch to heat the end.

I still.think a vacuum will work, just shove smaller diameter tubes in the end and duct tape them for sealing.

[KingFish]

http://hand-tools.hardwarestore.com/...ol-297812.aspx

X2

[mudder]

Just out of innocence why pump seafoam into the cylinder?
I thought seafoam was a gas and oil additive. Would that be to free up sticky rings?

[JohnGunn]

I have looked at the pic of the tube and honestly this is not the big huge issue it seems to be made into.
There have been alot of suggestions here that will work.
anomoly40 hit it on the head with the claw grabber tool, I personally would have grabbed my long needle nose pliers, grabbed the tube and pulled it out.
Worst case you get the tie and the tube drops, big deal it's shrink tubing, take all the plugs out and crank the engine, it should blow out eventually.
Seriously by looking at the pic there is ample room to grab it with needle nose pliers.
Even just a thin piece of wire with the end bent to a 90 degree, stick down through the tube slide it under the bottom edge and lift.

Thanks for your comments, econoaddict. How big an issue this is depends on a lot of things. First -- whose car it happens to and, second -- how problematic the issue becomes should, in spite of best efforts, it fall into the heart of the engine. I'm sure Zanzer, with all his skills and equipment wouldn't go through the agony I am experiencing. He would analyze the situation, pick the best tool among those he already owns and go for it. The worst that could happen to him is the loss of a couple of hours and the cost of a new head gasket to get it out for sure.

I wish I could say the same about myself, but the complication of failure for me are many and manifold. In the end, it is my decision, which is as it should be, since only I know how failure would impact my life.

Believe me, the first thing I did was get my longest-nosed pliers and try to get to the tube, but because of the recess that the hole is in my hand on the handle of the pliers would completely block my vision before I could even get close to the tube. My immediate response was that I needed longer pleirs, but thanks to this thread and the great response, I have gotten some suggestions which seem to offer an increased likelihood of success.

As far as your thought about turning the engine over until the tube "eventually" blows out: I had the same thought, but didn't want to spend time thinking about it, since I wanted to stay positive and move in the direction that would assure it did not come to that.

But since you mentioned it, it seems to me, because of the size and shape of the tube, it would have to hit the hole at exactly the right angle so that it would blow completely out of the engine, or it would either not enter the hole at all or get part way out, only to be sucked back in. I can see trying that in the event of failure, but, until I actually get to that point, I don't want to spend time considering it more.

Concerning the wire with a hook on the end that could be pushed through the tube to the other end and then pulling it free: I had not considered that, mainly because the angle of the tube is not parallel to the angle of the hole. A straight wire would hit the the edge of the tube well before reaching the other end.

Nevertheless, your comments are appreciated and, as you can see, given serious consideration. Thanks.

I have one of these and IMO no toolbox should be without one. They work great for so many things....even when I'm feeling lazy and don't feel like bending over to pick something up LOL :mrgreen:

Seriously though, they have made life easier in many situations :thumbup:

Thanks, Zanzer. Your opinions mean a lot to me.

Since these claw pick-up tools are so cheap and easily available, I'm thinking I'll get one and practice using it before deciding whether or not to trust it in my one-time shot at success. Next would be the hemostat which, if long enough, would seem to be an even more ideal tool for this admittedly unique application.

[navdoc101]

Hemostat

X2, you can get them that curve on the end, & they clamp shut. Army-Navy Surplus stores have them, a lot less than $20.

[JohnGunn]

What about a long pin that's bent into a small hook at the end? Put it into the center hole of the tubing and press into it to get a firm grip before you pull it out.

Less of a chance of disturbing the tube than larger pliers or inaccurate three pronged grabbing tools.


Another thought... You said it was shrink tubing? What about inserting a rod or stick into the tube a couple of inches and sending heat at it. It will shrink around the rod and you can pull it out in one piece. If the twist tie falls down the heat shrink tube, then it will get caught on the larger part of the tube inside the combustion chamber that wasn't shrunk yet.

Thanks, Zack. You've obviously expended some creative thinking on my problem. It is appreciated.

There is one thing that, in my mind, mitigates against both the suggestion of a bent wire to press the tube against the side of the hole as you pull the tube out, and the one that uses heat to shrink the tubing. I realize that in the process of thinking about this, I have already decided that the method I use will only touch the tube one time. And that one time will be the moment when the tool I am using closes down on the tube and twist tie in a "death grip" that will not be released until the tube is safely, not only out of the spark plug hole, but a full foot or two away from the car itself.

In addition, the idea of pressing the tube against the side of the spark plug hole and dragging it up and out of the hole is complicated by the roughness presented by the threads lining the walls of the hole.

Keep thinking. All your comments are welcome.

[econoaddict]

OK, you did say it was shrink tubing correct?

How about find something that is close to the same inside diameter of the tubing, stick it into the tubing about 1/4" or so then use a pencil torch or small propane torch to heat it enough to shrink and tighten on the piece inserted.

Honestly in my 30 years of wrenching I have removed alot of stuff from cylinders that others have dropped in.

The claw grabber tool is great, I have used it to get small bolts, nuts, spark plug pieces that were dropped into the cylinder. Kinda like the "claw" vending machines, just keep at it until you get it.

[JohnGunn]

Drip in hot wax and let it harden. I shouldn't think wax would damage the cylinder. If you're worried about it, after the foreign material has been extracted pour oil in and float any wax out. Could work. I'd be sure to test in on the workbench first.

Very creative, WmWatt. I like your way of thinking -- completely out of the box and off the wall.

Here are the complications your idea brings to my mind.
1. How would you control the flow of molten wax to insure it hardened at exactly the time that it was in contact with the tube? Your idea of dripping the wax directly down on the tube is not possible since the tube in inside the hole. There's a good deal of metal immediately above it to prevent any falling drips from getting even close to the tube.
2. If the wax were still flowing when it reached the tube, would it not tend to carry the tube along with it on its way deeper into the head?
3. If you succeeded in getting a piece of hardened wax attached to the tube, wouldn't you then be facing a problem not too dissimilar to the one you started out trying to solve? That being, how to get the wax encased tube out of the hole without forcing in even further down into it. (Second thought on this objection. I can see that the wax would stabilize the tube so that you could be assured of getting a good shot at clamping some tool on it to use in pulling it out.)

Just to prove our minds run in some ways along a similar track, I even thought it would be so easy to get the tube out is I could just lift the car and turn it so the hole was facing down and shake the tube out. Crazy? Yes, but I'm not ashamed.

.... Now that you have all these suggestions, when are you going to get it out?

.

With all this attention, why should I be in a hurry?

Do you have any friends that smoke pot? If so they probably have a pair of Hemostats. Would not have to spend $20.00. But it is a no brainer ,,,, hemo's and move on. Or if you have a small set of needle nose pliers .... get er done!

Only one friend who I suspect might be so equipped. We've never discussed it and I figure it's not my place to bring it up.

Believe me, I'd pay a lot more than $20 to have this ended. "Get er done?" Amen to that.

Axle grease sticks to EVERYTHING!!

Have you thought about asking someone what the stroke on a 1.3 is? You said the tube was 3"-4" long, I'm betting you may be at BDC already, in which case it won't fall anymore.

I like the idea of a wire down inside the tube, in case it does fall it would keep from falling away from the hole. Then you could slide something down the wire and into the heat shrink (why didnt you shrink onto the pouring device?) then use a propane torch to heat the end.

I still.think a vacuum will work, just shove smaller diameter tubes in the end and duct tape them for sealing.

Thanks for not giving up, Larry. I don't doubt that axle grease would stick. The question is would it stick strongly enough to reliably pull the tube completely out of the hole. I am less certain of that.

But your comment about the stroke of the engine sent me to my Aspire Service Manual for the answer. The stroke is 3.29 inches and the bore is 2.78 inches. I've never really had occasion to study the inside of a B3 engine, so it is difficult for me to visualize how that would actually look on the inside of the cylinder. I assume the spark plug hole is not right at the edge of the cylinder and more toward the center. So a 3 to 4 inch piece of tubing would most likely strike either the top of the piston if it is near TDC or the wall of the cylinder if the piston is low enough. If the piston were high enough to be supporting the end of the tube the end that I am able to see would be resting on the bottom of the hole and not be in contact with the top of it. That does not appear to be the case. From what I can see, clearer than the picture shows, the tube is in contact with the threads at the top of the hole.

That suggests to me that when the tube hit the cylinder wall it began to fall downward. It might have reached the top of the cylinder, in which case it would probably not be possible for me to push it any farther in than it is already. Or I might have reached a point at which it was suspended by contact at three points. The cylinder wall and the bottom and top of the spark plug hole. That might be more or less secure depending on how much of the tube was left in the hole when it hit the wall. That appears to me to be the state of things, as the angle of the tube is considerably different from that of the hole.

Interesting though this speculation may be, it essentially doesn't make me change my opinion about the degree of care I should bring to getting the tube out. I still believe I should assume that I will have only one shot at grabbing the tube so I had better give it my very best possible effort. With all your help, of course.

In spite of this, I don't see new thoughts as ever wasted. The only wasted thoughts are those that repeat previous ones without leading on to some new understanding. This is, of course, just my opinion.

X2

Thanks, KingFish. Your 2X for the claw pick-up tool brings the total up to at least 5 or 6X by now. I definitely plan to buy one and see how it feels in my hands as I stand in front of the engine looking at the tube wedged in the hole.

[Safety Guy]

Interesting problem, John.

I can appreciate your lack of resources concerning a dedicated place to work on the car, so I won't mention how I think you're taking this way too seriously.

I think the vacuum would be the best bet, balancing the need for security against efficiency and the devil-may-care attitude that most of us (who usually have either more experience or better resources) might have.

The vac wouldn't need to be all that powerful. You just need to properly size the working tip of it to just fit into the access area of the spark plug port. Once contact is almost made, the vacuum should improve, almost sealing the area and sucking the tube and wire out.

As usual, I could be wrong.

I have a feeling you'll get it out easily, though.

Karl

[zoe60]

Cheese and crackers! Just reach in there with something an grab it already!